Leia's Job

[sunnyskywalker]

What exactly is Leia's position in the Rebel Alliance? I don't think we ever find out in the movies.

At the beginning of ANH, it seems she's a spy: she uses "mercy missions" and "diplomatic missions to Alderaan" (if she's from Alderaan, why is she on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan, anyway?) to cloak her other activities, such as stealing top-secret Imperial military intelligence. Her position in the Imperial Senate probably gives her other opportunities to overhear things, sneak around, and maybe bribe and blackmail for the cause.

But I wonder whether that's all she does for the Alliance. She is a senator, after all, and thus must have some political and leadership ability; does she also have a say in directing Alliance policy? Or is that Bail's job? And while Bail says in RotS that he's going to toe the party line to stay under the radar, Leia doesn't seem like she knows how not to speak her mind. Maybe she keeps her tongue in check until she's captured, when she figures it makes no difference.

What really puzzles me, though, is what her position is once she starts living on Alliance bases. We see her ordering pilots around in ESB, so she has some authority over military personnel. She also spends time in the command center, looking at probe droids and such. But is she actually in the military chain of command, or is she part of the civilian branch of the Alliance, like Mon Mothma? Do they even have separate civil and military branches at this point?

Then in RotJ, she's part of the mission to rescue Han from Jabba along with Luke, who may or may not still be a commander; Lando, who may or may not have officially joined the Alliance (but who probably isn't a general yet); and Chewbacca, who wasn't officially in the Alliance at the end of ESB but who may be now. And the entire mission may or may not be an Alliance mission. Is this an extension of her covert operative job? Has she joined the Rebel version of a commando squad? Did she go get Han on her vacation hours? We just don't know.

Finally, she volunteers to be part of General Solo's command crew for a military mission on Endor--so is she in the military, or do they accept civilian volunteers, or what? And what is her job on that mission, exactly? To help Han give the team orders and take over if he dies?

I think the real-world explanation is that Lucas didn't think about it much and just gave the barest explanation possible to keep all the main characters involved. But all the guys get official job titles, so why doesn't Leia get one too? She's not doing much princessing these days, so shouldn't she get a second title to reflect what she actually does?

Actually, come to think of it, she's not the only one in title-less limbo: what's Chewie's job title? Do only human males get titles? Maybe he's General Solo's aide-de-camp...

...but that still doesn't explain what Leia's been doing for a living during the trilogy.

Comments

[fialleril.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think that the idea that there is a distinction between military and non-military Alliance members is one of the greatest goofs of the EU. I don't think there's really anything in the movies to indicate such a distinction, and quite a lot of things that would seem to argue against it.

The Alliance doesn't really seem to be that organized. They seem to be basically a rag-tag group of freedom fighters fighting with a rather abstract goal in mind: to bring an end to the Empire, and presumably to establish a democracy in its place (but we don't even hear them talk about that). Really they're just focused on ending the Empire, and they seem to see themselves as freedom fighters with the moral upper hand. They're a popular uprising against a totalitarian regime.

That kind of popular uprising, even in our own world, usually doesn't have a distinction between civilian and military within its own ranks. It can't, because it isn't a government, not even an alternative, underground government. If you join a popular resistance movement, you can expect to see some action.

Similarly, the titles and military rank of members of the Alliance seem to be fairly arbitrary. People do good work and become well known within the Alliance, and they're named General. They don't rise through any chain of command. Instead, they blow up a Death Star and are named Commander for their efforts, or they volunteer to lead a dangerous mission and consequently are made General. But even Generals don't seem to exercise any kind of ultimate authority. If a member of the Alliance wants to leave, there's nothing the General can do to stop him/her.

And that's another important point, I think, that the EU has missed by a mile. Joining the Alliance doesn't seem to be a full-time, once-you've-signed-up-you-can't-get-out gig. People appear to leave on personal business fairly frequently. Luke takes off to find a Jedi Master, and disappears for who knows how long, and it doesn't appear to be a problem. Han, Leia, Chewie, and the droids take off for Bespin (admittedly not by choice), and no one checks up on them. All of the main characters take off to rescue Han, and I thought it was pretty clear that they were doing that "on their own time," as it were. And that's not a problem, because it's not as though they're part of an army in any nationalist sense of the word. The Rebel Alliance is just that, a loose conglomeration of freedom fighters with a shared goal and a number of charismatic leaders, such as Mon Mothma, Admiral Ackbar, General Madine, and, I think, Princess Leia after she leaves the Senate and joins them full time. (Such people are probably supported by the rest of the Alliance members, since they've "blown their cover" and can no longer really function in the outside world for fear of being captured and compromised.) The Alliance not a national military, or the equivalent. They don't seem too concerned with military rules.

Actually, as much as I love the idea of Padme helping to form the Alliance, I think George's greatest mistake may have been in forming the Alliance so early. Because, if they'd actually been around for 20 years, I think they would have had a lot more infrastructure than the appear to, and we probably wouldn't be reading in the opening scrawl of ANH that the Alliance had only just won their first victory against the Empire. But then again, maybe the Alliance has only recently grown to incorporate enough people that they can actually begin to have a military/militia of sorts.

In short, I think the Rebel Alliance in the OT is much more like the Militia Men of the early American Revolution than they are like the British Army, or even the later American Revolutionary Army. They are military, yes, but their lines aren't clearly defined, whether between civilian and military or between members of the militia itself.

At least, that's how I've always seen it. I think a lot of the confusion about military rank and various people's roles arises out of the way the EU has tried to mold the Alliance into a national-style military structure, when it never really fit that structure in the films.

Hope that made a bit of sense.

[sunnyskywalker]

It's the Prequels that really muddle things for me. Because yes, if the Rebellion was relatively new, chaos would make sense. If it's twenty years old, huh? Even with all the major players running their own cells, you'd think they'd have had time to hash out some basic structure during that time to help the fight go more smoothly. (Wouldn't want chain of command issues wrecking a perfectly good campaign.)

It probably works best if the Rebellion took a long time to get going. Bail and Mon Mothma and the others who knew Palpatine and saw the Jedi teenagers get mowed down would know they had to oppose the Empire, but the average HoloNet viewer might have had no idea for years. So maybe they had no personnel to speak of until recently.

And even with the hodge-podge set-up, you'd still think that Leia would get some sort of title after three years of fighting, if Luke gets one after a single (albeit impressive) battle. Maybe she is a commander or a general, but everyone still calls her Princess because it's more impressive?

[fialleril.livejournal.com]

Well, up until ROTJ, as far as we know Leia hasn't actually been in any battles. So maybe that has something to do with it? Or maybe the title Princess just trumps everything. From the way it's used by the other rebels in ANH, especially, it seems to be an honorific as well as a literal title - like they regard her as "Princess" of the Rebellion, as well. For all Mon Mothma is (presumably) in charge, Leia seems to be the real face of the Rebellion.

[sunnyskywalker]

It does seem like she's the poster child. Her dad was one of the founders, she's taken up his mantle, she's of the new generation... I wonder what she does all day, though? Organizing supplies and trying to win new people (and funds) to the Rebellion?

[fialleril.livejournal.com]

LOL! She's like the telemarketer for the Rebellion!

[sunnyskywalker]

This is the Alliance to Restore the Republic Support Fund. We know that freedom and justice are important to you, and we would appreciate your contribution. Would you like to contribute ten thousand credits? Five thousand? Even one thousand? Every donation helps!

[fialleril.livejournal.com]

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[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

And now that I've just found this post, I'd just like to comment to both of you that while I'm too hip-deep in describing Tang dynasty-era Buddhism for my Chinese Religion final to provoke real thought, I agree with both of you, and think both you, fialleril, and you, sunnyskywalker, have made some great points.

The only thing I can think to add to the discussion is that due to the inherent chaos and brand-new and highly disorganized feel to the Rebell Alliance (also perhaps due to the fact that you have 394857928345 people from various planets and cultures mixing in and out constantly?), maybe Padme didn't found the Rebel Alliance at all. I think she just founded the idea and the sentiment--an idea that when opportunity presented itself years down the road, Bail and Mon Mothma took advantage of. Her tragic situation could also have been something that burned in their memories. Since presumably Palpatine was cracking down for a while, ferreting out any miscellaneous Jedi that weren't murdered in the initial genocide, and being extremely harsh, they had to lie low--which means no Rebel Alliance. Then maybe 15-18 years down the road, they finally got going when Palpatine's attention was no longer on them. And their activity is what capitulated Palpatine to crack down again and disband the Senate, especially since the Death Star was completed.

In any case, great meta, guys. I liked reading both your thoughts!

[sunnyskywalker]

It makes sense that they wouldn't be able to do much rebelling for a while. I imagine Bail sending lots of emails going, "I'd love to join in the weekly dissident report meeting, but as you know I have a new baby, and she's a little sickly, so maybe next time. Got to go change a diaper now, bye!" (Well, he probably had to go to a lot of those meetings anyway, to find out which of his friends he had to warn if nothing else.) And I think the general populace was probably slow to join up, so they wouldn't have had much personnel even if the leaders were ready to go.

Now I'm curious how Tang-era Buddhism differs from other eras. More elaborate art and rituals? Different ideas?

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

Yep, I think there was definitely a delayed reaction with the Rebellion, just due to necessity.

Ahahaha, Tang-era Buddhism is when Buddhism finally settled into China, sort of like its "Golden Age". New schools popping up everywhere, new monasteries as Chinese men joined, lots of imperial respect for Buddhism, etc. It was a good time to be a Buddhist, back then!

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

I'd imagine the Alliance became far more militarised after the destruction of Alderaan and the disbanding of the senate. Whatever role Leia was playing pre-ANH became pretty much obsolete after that, even if she hadn't been exposed as a rebel agent...

As for ranks and titles - well, we don't really see Han ever commanding a large enough force to merit the title 'General' - and as for Lando, even assuming he was commanding all the Alliance starfighters at Endor, shouldn't he be an Admiral then?

I'm going to assume that Alliance ranks and titles are an incoherent mish-mash of attempts at a real hierarchy, honourary titles, people using the rank they earned in the Imperial or regional militaries before defecting, and people who've quietly promoted themselves and are hoping no-one will notice...

And to be fair, 'Princess' probably does trump any military title - though shouldn't she be queen, now that the rest of the House of Organa is deceased? Sure, the planet is also now deceased too, but that shouldn't interfere with succession of the heir; the Spanish king still claims the title of King of Jerusalem, 700 years after that kingdom was destroyed...

[sunnyskywalker]

I've wondered why they had a general fighting a (space) naval battle. Possibly they don't have a distinction between Army and Navy either, and just stuck "General" somewhere in the list of titles under "Admiral." They do have Admiral Ackbar ultimately in charge of the space battle. Using previously-earned titles sounds reasonable too.

Yeah, she should have gotten promoted to Queen, you would think. Though since her father was "Viceroy," maybe the Empire froze the monarchy at some point (and made Prince Bail Imperial Viceroy there to appease the locals?). Maybe Leia is technically in charge of the Alderaanian cell of the Rebellion, but there's not much left of it, so she ends up as a floating command person who takes on whatever needs doing?

[deaka.livejournal.com]

This has bothered me when researching fic in that era. It seems like she's a part of the civilian command, but what does she do? It's maddeningly vague in the movies. I suppose it depends how militarised the Alliance is, but I always thought that there would have to be some set hierarchy in place, some kind of structured system. Otherwise who would know where to take orders from? The Alliance may be wanting to avoid resembling the Empire, but on the other hand the Imperial defectors in Alliance ranks are used to a structured command system and may not adjust well to finding themselves without one. Especially in a battle scenario.

Come to think of it, I don't think Mon Mothma had a title in the Alliance. Would she retain Senator as a title (even through the Senate's disbanded)? Was Garm Bel Iblis referred to as Senator in the EU?

It's all very unclear. Perhaps the Alliance just weren't very organised. :p

Edited for typos. I should know better than to try to type coherently after midnight.

[sunnyskywalker]

Yeah, they must have some kind of structure, however loose and fluid. Especially with twenty years to work on it. So what is it? I would guess that until sometime soon before the movies, it's been a loose cell structure with a minimal high command to prevent major screw-ups, and maybe with not as many people to organize (which would explain why they haven't had any major victories until ANH). But with a bunch of senators running it, you would think they'd have invented some sort of structure over the years. They organize stuff! That's what they do!

[deaka.livejournal.com]

I would guess that until sometime soon before the movies, it's been a loose cell structure with a minimal high command to prevent major screw-ups, and maybe with not as many people to organize (which would explain why they haven't had any major victories until ANH).

I guess that would make sense, especially if the victory at Yavin 4 sort of galvanised things and they suddenly had more people joining up than they knew what to do with. :p

Oh, and I forgot to ask before, is it okay if I friend you? I keep missing fanfic you post (and I love your meta-type posts, too).

[sunnyskywalker]

Of course it's okay! *friends back*

Now I'm imagining the weeks after Yavin being swamped with tons of people signing up and the Rebels having no idea what to do with them. It almost sounds like a sitcom - pile a bunch of Rebels in sleeping bags on the floor because there's nowhere to put them and watch what happens XD