Nooooooooo! (Or, What Was the Emperor Thinking?)

[sunnyskywalker]

Why does Palpatine tell Anakin that Anakin killed Padme?

Despite a few lines about bringing peace to the galaxy with the dark side and so on, Palpatine mainly uses Anakin's desire to save Padme to turn him. Similarly, Anakin, despite a few lines about peace etc., makes saving Padme his main reason for joining Palpatine.

Then Palpatine tells Anakin that in his rage, Anakin killed Padme.

My first thought after this was, "What the $#@% is Palpy on? Death sticks?" If saving Padme was really the main reason Anakin turned to the dark side, wouldn't finding out that he killed her because he turned to the dark side and let himself be overcome by rage make him NOT want to be on the dark side anymore? "Hmm. Because of the dark side, I killed the one person I can't live without, and I can't bring her back with my new dark powers after all. Palps, you lied to me!" I know it's not like he can just snap his fingers and turn back into what he was before, but we know from ROTJ that he can turn back, and you'd think it would be easier if he did it right at the beginning when he realized what a horrible thing he had done instead of after twenty years of being a Sith.

If Palpatine's smart enough to manipulate thousands of senators, Jedi, and citizens for over a decade, keep himself from getting assassinated during the twenty years he's emperor, and basically always knows how to avoid getting into tight spots in the first place as well as how to get out of them, why does he do something so stupid as giving his newly-turned apprentice a reason to turn on him? Why not say Obi-Wan killed her so Anakin would still blame the Jedi for everything instead of his new master? Or tell him that Padme was weak and wanted to die, she was unworthy of Anakin, she was corrupted by Obi-Wan and the Jedi, he couldn't have saved her soul even if he had saved her body, etc. etc.? Anakin was already turning against her anyway--that might have sealed the deal with no risk to Palpatine.

The only thing I can think of is that he actually believes he's telling the truth. But if he's really all that with the Force, he ought to know better, and anyway, since when does Palpatine tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

And in a related question, why did Anakin just scream a bit and then go on merrily serving the Emperor for twenty years?

Comments

[fialleril.livejournal.com]

And in a related question, why did Anakin just scream a bit and then go on merrily serving the Emperor for twenty years?

I have two possible theories about this. The first is the ever classic "if I have to suffer, so does everybody else" syndrome, but with a twist. In this case, Vader has already abandoned (and in fact destroyed) everything that he might have had to go back to, so there isn't actually much point in going back. If you've already lost everything else, whey the heck not rule the galaxy? Okay, yeah, so technically he's only number two. But still. Number two is a heck of a lot better than some dusty old tramp of a hermit practicing his knitting technique on Tatooine for twenty years.

But actually, that's not my pet theory. ;) My pet theory is that this is what the Dark Side is really all about.

Sure, Yoda talks a lot about anger, fear, and aggression, and occasionally he also mentions hate as a bad thing. But really, what does he know? In my opinion, not a lot. (But my reasons for regarding Yoda as suspect and even downright evil are another issue entirely.) To my way of thinking, the essence of the Dark Side, if you will, is despair.

Although in extreme cases, anger, fear, aggression, or hatred could become so utterly consuming of a person's life that that person is really nothing else, that isn't how it usually works. Everybody gets angry, and sometimes it lasts a while, but normally it doesn't control all your actions. Most people have felt hatred at some point. Fear is a perfectly normal and even inescapable human emotion. And part of the definition of those things as emotions is that they don't last. After all, if you lived in a permanent state of fear, it wouldn't be fear any more. The human mind isn't capable of handling that. After long enough, you simply become numb.

That these emotions don't keep someone on the Dark Side is pretty clear even in the movies. For example, Obi-Wan definitely kills Darth Maul in a bout of anger, probably even hatred. Does he fall to the Dark Side? No. Luke has quite a number of episodes with anger, and even comes close to giving in, but is ultimately able to say refuse the temptation (meaning, apparently, that the very evident anger he had just exhibited did not have any lasting ill effect on him). Even Anakin slaughters an entire tribe of people in a fit of rage in AOTC, but he doesn't actually turn to the Dark Side until three years later, and we are led to believe even then that, had he chosen differently, he might never have fallen at all.

So maybe anger, fear, and aggression can help you fall. But they won't keep you on the Dark Side. What does that? Despair. Despair keeps you trapped. And if you remain trapped and despairing long enough, you may even start to like it. After all, if there is no hope, why not embrace your ruin and glory in it? Why not act completely without restraint? Because if you're damned anyway, there's no reason not to.

So actually, from this perspective, you might even say that Palpatine's telling Vader that he had killed his wife (and unborn child) was exactly the thing needed to drive him into the Dark forever.

Just a thought. ;)

[sunnyskywalker]

This would make Yoda's "Don't give in to despair" one of his good pieces of advice! (And maybe he has personal experience too - who knows what happened during those twenty years on Dagobah? Or during his youth, for that matter.)

I think I could buy despair, definitely. It still comes across as a little weird the way it's shown in the movie - just "Oops, your whole reason for turning to the dark side? You killed her. Now let's dominate, whee!" "Nooooo! Uh, okay. Death Star!"

Though I suppose we don't know what's really going through Vader's head as he stares out at the Death Star with Palpatine. It could be something like, "I deserve to be stuck with this freak." Or "I'm an idiot. I'll just have to salvage what I can - at least I still have more political power than I used to. Maybe I can still fix some things. Starting with the rest of those Jedi..."

[fialleril.livejournal.com]

This would make Yoda's "Don't give in to despair" one of his good pieces of advice!

One of his only good pieces of advise, I'd say. ;)

Yes, I'll admit that the end of ROTS was not put together very well. And I hate Vader's "Nooooo!" because it just seems totally out of character for him to say that. I can't even imagine Anakin saying that before his transformation. But I suspect George wanted to show that, even though he's in his snazzy suit now, he's still essentially just a broken man inside. Or something like that.

Personally, I don't think Vader was thinking a whole lot as he stared at the Death Star at the end. I think he was probably feeling rather numb, just sort of mechanically (if you'll pardon the pun) going through the motions. Despair and numbness go together.

And maybe he was even like that for the next twenty-odd years. He doesn't seem to have a lot of spark in his character in ANH, either. Sure, he tortures Leia, and he even starts strangling Admiral Motti. But those actions seem pretty mechanical, as well.

It isn't until he finds out about Luke that he starts to show some spirit and some real interest in what he's doing again. (As evidenced by the inordinate number of crewmemebers strangled in ESB.)

[sunnyskywalker]

It does seem out of character. Anakin's just not melodramatic with his voice like that (though he certainly is in other ways).

I think he was probably feeling rather numb

Oh, yes. I didn't phrase it clearly - I meant more like that was his underlying sense of things, not that he was actually standing there saying anything like this in a clear internal monologue. I definitely agree that he seems pretty mechanical in ANH, like he's just going through the motions. (Except possibly when he thinks he's about to destroy the Rebel base, though that could be more relief than anything.)