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sunnyskywalkerWhy read-through?
Chapter One
Chapter Five
I feel like I ought to be posting real meta, but I don't have any that's ready to post yet. But the "Qui-Gon's Advice" thing is shaping up nicely, and I have all sorts of ideas for something on Captain Flint, Harry Potter, and Treasure Island. And a half-done analysis of tarot symbolism in Courtship, which is taking a while because I know very little about the subject.
I like this chapter SO MUCH BETTER than the last one. There are still Idiot Plot moments, but not as many. There are tons of intresting background details that I really wish Wolverton had expanded on, because some of them could have - and probably should have - affected other events - but others are fine just sitting in the background looking cool. (I got way too interested in the Solo/Horm family history. But there's so much potential there!) Leia fights off the Imperius Curse for a moment and we see her real personality, and Threepio just ROCKS.
Does anyone think maybe Dave Wolverton is one of those writers who needs a few chapters to warm up? (I think he definitely has an easier time thinking up neat ideas than he does executing them. Maybe this is one reason I get so frustrated at this book - I have trouble with that too, so it's like being mad at myself, in a way.) I've also noticed that he often pulls away from emotional moments - in this chapter he jumps to a POV light-years away to avoid writing one. When he doesn't pull away, it ends up like the end of Chapter 5, so maybe he's trying to spare us, but it's still annoying.
Anyway.
-Han, Chewie, and Threepio are in a nice cantina. Couples are dancing slowly to the sound of Ludurian nose flutes. Eww. I don't even want to think about how you play those.
-Han hasn't been able to see Leia because she's always with Isolder, and now she's left him a message that she might be going to Hapes. That is just horrible. You'd think that after being together for years, Leia would at least do Han the courtesy of telling him in person. Or that she would show more signs of feeling guilty and ashamed of her behavior. But she only feels a few twinges, and is touching Isolder “nearly eighty-six percent of the time,” as Threepio informs Han. You know, this book is making me root for Han to find someone better. And I usually like Han/Leia.
-I also want to point out that leaving a message on a lover's phone that you're going off with a hot new thing without actually breaking up with the lover (and indeed, after having been more or less nice earlier) is a stereotypically male thing to do. Having Leia be the insensitive, dickheaded guy in Han/Leia while Han is obsessing about love, marriage, and how to make Leia like him again makes Leia's internal comments about how controlling and inconsiderate to women Han is seem pretty weird. Like she's trying to convince herself it's true when it actually isn't. If only we had an actual narrative hint that that's what's going on!
-Threepio mentions that Isolder has been in council meetings discussing the Verpine/Barabel problem with Leia. They're acting like the alliance is a done deal. They've also had dinner three nights in a row, gone out on romantic strolls, and gone dancing at some random dignitary's party. No wonder Han is out getting drunk.
-Threepio thinks Isolder is well-mannered too. Of course, now we know Threepio was programmed by a nine-year-old boy.
-Han doesn't know how to tell Leia how much he loves her and asks Threepio if he knows any poems. Aww... Threepio responds with a really funny poem written by a species that considers bringing home a thula rat to be romantic imagery. It's a five-hundred-thousand-line poem. (Just for comparison, the Iliad is about fifteen thousand lines.) Screw this romantic misunderstanding stuff; I want to hear Threepio geek out about epic poetry from around the galaxy!
-Four women nearby say Han is looking pretty bad and has bags under his eyes. Well, he probably hasn't been sleeping well. They also say he's “scruffy looking” and wonder what Leia ever saw in him. Umm. He's no Isolder, but he isn't what you'd call bad-looking, now is he? These women were probably here last year saying Leia must only want Han for his looks. Because women are fickle like that, as we've learned so far in this book.
-They then talk about how hot Isolder is and how people are selling posters of him. Just twist that knife, Wolverton! If you're trying to build up sympathy for Han, it's working too well. It's making everyone else in the book look bad.
-Han tells Threepio to tell Leia he misses her if she asks about him. All we need now is the drunken phone call at 2 AM begging her to come back to him.
-Threepio goes off to gossip with a computer so he can prove what a useful droid he is. He's so cute. *hugs Threepio* I think Threepio and Chewie are tied for my second-favorite characters in this book so far.
-Time for the special session of the Alderaanian Council! Threkin Horm is all dressed up in a dark green waistcoat and had his “thinning” hair “meticulously curled” into ringlets. Please, Dave, let the man have some dignity.
-I'm really getting annoyed at how everyone in the book who is pro-Leia/Isolder is ridiculous and obviously operating without a brain. Wouldn't it make things harder for Leia if Threkin was someone she really respected? We know she's going to end up with Han because that's the way these books work, but couldn't it be at least a little believable that she might marry Isolder?
-The plush council room with its curtained walls and plum-covered chairs could hold nearly two thousand people, yet only a hundred members of the council were present. Wait. If that were the whole council, Wolverton would have said, “But only the hundred members of the council were present,” right? If only a hundred are present, then there are more than a hundred members. How many are there, and why aren't they here? Are they on vacation? Are they protesting the marriage? Why not come out and say so, then?
-The rest of the seating was occupied by curious onlookers, while the back of the hall was occupied by a gleaming forest of metallic media droids. All checked for concealed weapons, I presume.
-Han is in the back, according to the narrator, who can see up there. Leia, who is sitting in the front, doesn't spare him a thought.
-Leia had intended to discuss her plans here bluntly but hadn't been prepared for so much media attention. Why not? Haven't we spent the whole book hearing what a big deal this marriage would be?
-The media thinks the assassination attempt was fantastic. While I can believe that the networks would love the big news, I also think that at least a few of them would speculate on why a Hapan tried to assassinate Leia. Wouldn't HAPES SUSPECTED OF USING CONTROVERSIAL PROPOSAL AS COVER FOR ASSASSINATION be a great headline? Unless someone is keeping the media quiet about those ideas. Now wouldn't that be interesting.
-Not that we'll hear anything about it. Wolverton introduced this potentially interesting media idea just to tease us. Never mind that if they actually did report all the dirt, real and speculative, the way he says they are, the characters would have a lot more to talk about at the very least. (“So... where was NR security during the attack, exactly? And why are the Hapans trying to kill you if they're so peaceful, Princess?”) Or that if someone is suppressing the news, that's important and ought to be mentioned.
-Leia tells them that she hasn't actually said yes, so it's a bit early to be planning the wedding. That almost sounds like Leia! Yay!
-“Oh, Leia,” Threkin said with a condescending smile. “Often in the past your clear head and cautiousness have served you well, but in this particular case...?” So he's saying that marrying Isolder would be a rash decision made with a muddled mind? What a great recommendation! I can see why he's all for this. It's a really, really bad sign when even the characters know they're acting like idiots.
-Unless what Threkin means is “stop worrying your pretty little head and let the men tell you what's best.” Funny, I never took Alderaan for a hotbed of sexism, considering that they let an eighteen-year-old girl represent their entire sector. And just checking, but isn't the person running the New Republic a woman? So shouldn't any patriarchal attitudes be a little more subtle than this?
-Leia is going on a six-month tour of Hapes. Yes, now that some Hapans has tried to assassinate her, let's send her away from our trusted security forces into the assassins' home territory where they can get at her more easily! I'm starting to think the New Republic has been in on the assassination plot from the start, and maybe even approached Ta'a Chume about helping them. It makes as much sense as anything else.
-“It will give you and Isolder a little time to grow closer while the royal house of Hapes gets an opportunity to see how well that pretty little head of yours wears a crown!” I was kidding about the pretty little head thing. If I take it back, Dave, will you take it back too?
-“Don't you all think that Leia and Isolder make a beautiful couple?” So Threkin SlugHorm admits that it's all about the pretty. This is just making him and the entire marriage plan look unredeemably stupid.
-Most of the professional politicians there are amateurs in attendance? remained somewhat somber, but many of the traders traders of what? snickered while members of the media so they have live reporters as well as the droids and audience cheered and clapped. Now wait a minute. “Somber” means “dark and gloomy or dull; dismal; sad,” according to my dictionary. Why are the politicians gloomy? Do they think the marriage is a bad idea? Are they upset that Threkin Horm is happy that their beloved princess is going off with potential assassins? (I'm assuming they're the council members.) Then why don't they say something? If not here, then in private, either before or after this scene. And why doesn't Leia wonder what they're so gloomy about?
-You know, if we got more about those council members, and if they were sensible, then Threkin could keep on being ridiculous and it wouldn't feel as imbalanced. (When everyone is pro-Leia/Isolder and pro-rushing into things without thinking, I stop believing in the story and start looking at the man behind the curtain instead.) I'd still wonder why Threkin is so powerful, though, instead of one of them.
-“You can't plan my wedding without me!” Leia interrupted, rising from her seat, astonished at Threkin's audacity. LEIA, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? I'VE MISSED YOU SO MUCH! *hugs Real!Leia*
-“Isolder understands, as I'm sure that you must, that we aren't engaged – formally or informally. I'm going to Hapes simply to...” He gave you one month to decide, and you're going on a six-month trip. That implies a decision, doesn't it? And since you're not planning on leaving Hapes after three weeks, that implies a positive decision, doesn't it? This isn't rocket science, Leia.
-And then she realized the truth. Isolder was taking her to Hapes so that the planetary dignitaries she might someday rule could study her, measure her for the crown. And she was going so that she could have time to get closer to Isolder. It was just as Threkin said. No matter how she might try to deny it, everyone else in the galaxy could see what was happening. Again, it's no wonder Mon Mothma wants to get rid of her. What did she think it was, a vacation? Did she not think that accepting Isolder's offer to see the worlds she would rule meant that she was agreeing to rule them? And if she was prepared to discuss her plans “bluntly,” then why didn't she spend some time preparing and, I don't know, anticipating situations like this and figuring out her answers? Is she a politician or isn't she?
-And even if not for the public, why didn't she at least try to figure out her reasons for going on a six-month trip with a guy who proposed to her for her personal satisfaction? Did she just not think between sobbing in his arms and walking into the council chamber? I know Leia can be impulsive and can have trouble re-thinking biases and first impressions, but this brain death is something else entirely.
-She glanced over at Han. He looked miserable. I'll bet. She sat down, tried not to blush, intensely conscious that this encounter was already being carried live over dozens of news nets. She sounds more worried about being embarrassed than she is about the guy she hasn't had the guts to officially break up with before agreeing to go off with another guy. She knew she should argue against Threkin, if only to save face, but right now she just couldn't think. Only right now? It's been longer than that, Sweetheart.
-For the first time in her life, Leia was at a loss for words. That actually is sad. I would feel a lot more sorry for her, though, if she hadn't dug the hole herself by not bothering to think or prepare beforehand.
-Threepio bursts in and asks to address the council. I know he cuts in on conversations when he's on military bases or in the middle of an asteroid field, but shouldn't there be some protocol for this, like asking a council-member quietly first?
-Threkin is shocked at the idea of a droid speaking before the council. Leia “smiled inwardly” and thinks that this might be the first nail in the coffin for Horm's political career. Is she just mad at him right now, or is this a long-standing wish? I can definitely see why she'd want his career to end, but she hasn't found his behavior annoying or offensive for five chapters (and that's just weird), so it seems more like a momentary desire.
-Leia steps in and says Threepio should be allowed to speak, and the media droids cheer. (The people assent too.) So Leia is a champion for droid rights, but doesn't care about the oppressed men of Hapes?
-I do love the detail about the media droids, though. It fits nicely, and it reminds me of the “We don't serve their kind here” in ANH. Anti-droid prejudice is one of those little background attitudes that make the GFFA feel real and bigger than what's on the screen or page.
-Threepio says Leia should marry Han, and Threkin objects that Han isn't even royalty. Well, technically, neither is Leia. She was adopted, remember? So Threkin's just setting himself up for embarrassment by relying on blood as an indicator of worth. He would have done better to say that Han isn't educated enough or refined enough for Leia.
-But no one brings up the fact that Leia's parentage is completely unknown (except to her, Luke, Han, and Chewie). Because then Isolder might get scared off too early, and that would mess up the script. Besides, why would Leia be sensitive about parentage issues and object to the idea that only someone with a good pedigree is a good marriage partner? It's not like she has any issues with her father or anything.
-Threepio says that by birthright Han is the king of Corellia. I don't like this. It's like saying, “Of course your future spouse's character is the most important thing, and a royal pedigree totally doesn't matter... except that it does, and Han just happens to have one. So he's good enough, really!” I would rather see a completely non-royal Han pitted against a royal Isolder.
-Threepio says Han has tried to hide this fact. Leia wonders why Han never told her. If she's been treating him even half as badly as she has these past few days, I'm not surprised he didn't want to confide in her.
-Leia thinks Threepio is incapable of lying, but he can be ordered to lie, right? Like that time he told Luke he didn't know the pretty girl in the hologram?
-And speaking of Luke, now we inexplicably switch to his point of view. Both Leia and Han are having all sorts of interesting emotions right now, but we don't get to see them. Instead, we're stuck with a nearly emotionless Luke watching them on the news. Seriously, he is more surprised that they get the news way out here than he is that Han's ancestor was a king or that Leia is taking off with a guy she hardly knows. You'd think Luke would care a little more than that.
-Unless he's started falling apart lately, and has gone emotionally numb, and is in such bad shape that he thinks he's learning detachment rather than being completely messed up... but that would be complicated and interesting and not in the standard script, so no go.
-He thinks that Leia is living every woman's fantasy. Yeah, I always fantasize about being pushed into marriage with an arrogant jerk who doesn't care about my personality or my desires and whose family wants me dead. My god, Luke has been infected with patriarchy too! He thinks all girls are just waiting to be swept off their feet and taken care of by a big strong man!
-Luke smiled inwardly. Of course, he thought, Han is a king. I should have recognized it before. But why did he hide it? Sorry, WTF? Why would he think Han was a king? Because he has that noble Ranger bearing?
-In spite of his smile, Luke felt troubled. He could feel something odd, something distant and dark stirring. Too many in the galaxy would resist Leia's union to Isolder. You don't need the Force to figure that out. So why hasn't anyone in the New Republic? I wish the “something odd” Luke feels were something like the New Republic being involved in the assassination plot rather than the obvious Hapan plot (and the equally obvious upcoming we're-meeting-Zsinj-and-witches).
-Berethon e Solo introduced democracy to “the Corellian Empire.” Cool in so many ways. I want to hear more about this Corellian Empire, and about Berethon and why he decided to introduce democracy.
-Han's grandpa was Dalla Solo, who called himself Dalla Suul “to hide his identity during the Clone Wars.” Ooh, also intriguing. Has anyone written more about this guy? Whom was he hiding from?
-Dalla's firstborn son was Han's father, Jonash Suul. Han changed his name back to Solo and tampered with the records on Corellia to hide his lineage.
-No mention of the Solo women, you notice. Who was Han's mother? Some random mechanic, or a descendant of a Corellian duke, or what? Does anyone in the book know?
-I think Threepio loves fanficcers.
-Han slinks out the back. This isn't necessarily relevant to this instance, but it reminds me how astonishingly non-confrontational he has been so far. I don't know whether Wolverton did this intentionally to show how beaten down Han is by the war or whether he just didn't want Han to mess up the plot by saying inconveniently sharp things that the other characters couldn't ignore. Like, “Leia I got your message, and are you insane? The Hapans just tried to kill you, and you want to visit them before the NR has even investigated?”
-Dalla was known as Dalla the Black, and was a famous murderer, kidnapper, and pirate. This gives Han a really good opening to talk about social stratification and the difficulty of escaping the class you were born into later. Let's see if he does.
-Threkin Horm thinks royal heritage doesn't count (or is questionable) if one of your ancestors was also a pirate. I really wonder what he would say if Leia told him who her biological father was. Or what he would think about an intelligent, handsome, wealthy, principled man who had no royal ancestry and came from a family of shopkeepers. He has some interesting and I think realistically conflicting ideas about lineage, but I don't know enough about them to be sure.
-“Well, I am just an ignorant droid and confess that I don't understand how the actions of one's ancestors enhance or detract from one's respectability.” Listen to Threepio, people!
-“But since Dalla Suul's illegitimate daughter was your mother, I expect that you are infinitely more familiar with the logic of the arguments than I am.” HAHAHA! Threepio, you ROCK :D
-So Threkin and Han are cousins. I bet they're both horrified.
-I wonder how Threkin's grandmother wound up pregnant by Dalla the Black. Was it voluntary? Did he kidnap her? Did she like bad boys? Did Threkin's mother know her brother Jonash?
-I think even before the prequels, we knew the Clone Wars happened roughly twenty-five years before ANH, so did Wolverton just guess that the wars were longer than they were or is he saying the already-adult Jonash followed his father's lead in changing his name during the wars?
-Wait, this doesn't work. Threepio says Dalla was born “nearly sixty years ago,” so Jonash was probably not born more than forty years ago. Han is in his mid-thirties. Uh... so Jonash was a prepubescent father? Okay, let's say Dalla was born 59 and 3/4 years ago and had Jonash really really early, and Jonash was born forty-seven years ago, and Jonash was also a really really young father. (And then did he die young, or does Han have a whole passel of siblings out there somewhere? And how many illegitimate children did Dalla have?) That's just barely possible, I think.
-But that still doesn't leave enough time for Threkin to be “old.” He can't be much older than Han. Maybe he's just let himself go?
-And Threkin's mother also must have had him very young. The Horm family sounds seriously messed up. That explains a lot. Maybe he's fat not for comic purposes, but because he has an eating disorder. And he's been so pro-Leia/Isolder because he knows Han is his cousin and can't bear to let that bit of his family history get closer.
-Er, getting back to the actual book... Threkin turns pale and shakes. I'm not sure whether that's because he didn't know and is shocked, or because he did know and is freaked out that his secret is out. I hope he did know, actually. It makes sense that his insecurity about his lineage and screwed-up family led him to overcompensate and obsess about good lineages.
-Han's other known cousin is Thrackan Sal-Solo. Threkin. Thrackan. Hmm... Family name? Is Threkin/Thrackan the Taylor/Tyler of the GFFA? Props to Roger MacBride Allen, if that's what he had in mind.
-Luke turns off the announcer droid's commentary. I want to know what the droid thinks. Especially since all we get from Luke is a ho-hum “Han's family fell on hard times and turned to crime; no wonder he felt ashamed!” I can think of a lot more for Luke to chew on. Like why Han doesn't trust anyone enough to tell them about his past – not even Chewie. Or how Han will react later. Or what Leia will think about having it shoved in her face how important other officials think bloodlines are. Or that all this talk of bloodlines is a big reminder that Ta'a Chume is likely to want Leia to get started producing heirs pretty quickly, and what does Leia think about that? Heck, even worrying that now they might have to have Threkin over for dinner once in a while would be more interesting.
-The chapter ends with, “Poor Han.” Indeed. Wolverton is going out of his way to make us feel sorry for Han. I don't know whether he meant to make us irritated at everyone else.
Onward ho!
Chapter One
Chapter Five
I feel like I ought to be posting real meta, but I don't have any that's ready to post yet. But the "Qui-Gon's Advice" thing is shaping up nicely, and I have all sorts of ideas for something on Captain Flint, Harry Potter, and Treasure Island. And a half-done analysis of tarot symbolism in Courtship, which is taking a while because I know very little about the subject.
I like this chapter SO MUCH BETTER than the last one. There are still Idiot Plot moments, but not as many. There are tons of intresting background details that I really wish Wolverton had expanded on, because some of them could have - and probably should have - affected other events - but others are fine just sitting in the background looking cool. (I got way too interested in the Solo/Horm family history. But there's so much potential there!) Leia fights off the Imperius Curse for a moment and we see her real personality, and Threepio just ROCKS.
Does anyone think maybe Dave Wolverton is one of those writers who needs a few chapters to warm up? (I think he definitely has an easier time thinking up neat ideas than he does executing them. Maybe this is one reason I get so frustrated at this book - I have trouble with that too, so it's like being mad at myself, in a way.) I've also noticed that he often pulls away from emotional moments - in this chapter he jumps to a POV light-years away to avoid writing one. When he doesn't pull away, it ends up like the end of Chapter 5, so maybe he's trying to spare us, but it's still annoying.
Anyway.
-Han, Chewie, and Threepio are in a nice cantina. Couples are dancing slowly to the sound of Ludurian nose flutes. Eww. I don't even want to think about how you play those.
-Han hasn't been able to see Leia because she's always with Isolder, and now she's left him a message that she might be going to Hapes. That is just horrible. You'd think that after being together for years, Leia would at least do Han the courtesy of telling him in person. Or that she would show more signs of feeling guilty and ashamed of her behavior. But she only feels a few twinges, and is touching Isolder “nearly eighty-six percent of the time,” as Threepio informs Han. You know, this book is making me root for Han to find someone better. And I usually like Han/Leia.
-I also want to point out that leaving a message on a lover's phone that you're going off with a hot new thing without actually breaking up with the lover (and indeed, after having been more or less nice earlier) is a stereotypically male thing to do. Having Leia be the insensitive, dickheaded guy in Han/Leia while Han is obsessing about love, marriage, and how to make Leia like him again makes Leia's internal comments about how controlling and inconsiderate to women Han is seem pretty weird. Like she's trying to convince herself it's true when it actually isn't. If only we had an actual narrative hint that that's what's going on!
-Threepio mentions that Isolder has been in council meetings discussing the Verpine/Barabel problem with Leia. They're acting like the alliance is a done deal. They've also had dinner three nights in a row, gone out on romantic strolls, and gone dancing at some random dignitary's party. No wonder Han is out getting drunk.
-Threepio thinks Isolder is well-mannered too. Of course, now we know Threepio was programmed by a nine-year-old boy.
-Han doesn't know how to tell Leia how much he loves her and asks Threepio if he knows any poems. Aww... Threepio responds with a really funny poem written by a species that considers bringing home a thula rat to be romantic imagery. It's a five-hundred-thousand-line poem. (Just for comparison, the Iliad is about fifteen thousand lines.) Screw this romantic misunderstanding stuff; I want to hear Threepio geek out about epic poetry from around the galaxy!
-Four women nearby say Han is looking pretty bad and has bags under his eyes. Well, he probably hasn't been sleeping well. They also say he's “scruffy looking” and wonder what Leia ever saw in him. Umm. He's no Isolder, but he isn't what you'd call bad-looking, now is he? These women were probably here last year saying Leia must only want Han for his looks. Because women are fickle like that, as we've learned so far in this book.
-They then talk about how hot Isolder is and how people are selling posters of him. Just twist that knife, Wolverton! If you're trying to build up sympathy for Han, it's working too well. It's making everyone else in the book look bad.
-Han tells Threepio to tell Leia he misses her if she asks about him. All we need now is the drunken phone call at 2 AM begging her to come back to him.
-Threepio goes off to gossip with a computer so he can prove what a useful droid he is. He's so cute. *hugs Threepio* I think Threepio and Chewie are tied for my second-favorite characters in this book so far.
-Time for the special session of the Alderaanian Council! Threkin Horm is all dressed up in a dark green waistcoat and had his “thinning” hair “meticulously curled” into ringlets. Please, Dave, let the man have some dignity.
-I'm really getting annoyed at how everyone in the book who is pro-Leia/Isolder is ridiculous and obviously operating without a brain. Wouldn't it make things harder for Leia if Threkin was someone she really respected? We know she's going to end up with Han because that's the way these books work, but couldn't it be at least a little believable that she might marry Isolder?
-The plush council room with its curtained walls and plum-covered chairs could hold nearly two thousand people, yet only a hundred members of the council were present. Wait. If that were the whole council, Wolverton would have said, “But only the hundred members of the council were present,” right? If only a hundred are present, then there are more than a hundred members. How many are there, and why aren't they here? Are they on vacation? Are they protesting the marriage? Why not come out and say so, then?
-The rest of the seating was occupied by curious onlookers, while the back of the hall was occupied by a gleaming forest of metallic media droids. All checked for concealed weapons, I presume.
-Han is in the back, according to the narrator, who can see up there. Leia, who is sitting in the front, doesn't spare him a thought.
-Leia had intended to discuss her plans here bluntly but hadn't been prepared for so much media attention. Why not? Haven't we spent the whole book hearing what a big deal this marriage would be?
-The media thinks the assassination attempt was fantastic. While I can believe that the networks would love the big news, I also think that at least a few of them would speculate on why a Hapan tried to assassinate Leia. Wouldn't HAPES SUSPECTED OF USING CONTROVERSIAL PROPOSAL AS COVER FOR ASSASSINATION be a great headline? Unless someone is keeping the media quiet about those ideas. Now wouldn't that be interesting.
-Not that we'll hear anything about it. Wolverton introduced this potentially interesting media idea just to tease us. Never mind that if they actually did report all the dirt, real and speculative, the way he says they are, the characters would have a lot more to talk about at the very least. (“So... where was NR security during the attack, exactly? And why are the Hapans trying to kill you if they're so peaceful, Princess?”) Or that if someone is suppressing the news, that's important and ought to be mentioned.
-Leia tells them that she hasn't actually said yes, so it's a bit early to be planning the wedding. That almost sounds like Leia! Yay!
-“Oh, Leia,” Threkin said with a condescending smile. “Often in the past your clear head and cautiousness have served you well, but in this particular case...?” So he's saying that marrying Isolder would be a rash decision made with a muddled mind? What a great recommendation! I can see why he's all for this. It's a really, really bad sign when even the characters know they're acting like idiots.
-Unless what Threkin means is “stop worrying your pretty little head and let the men tell you what's best.” Funny, I never took Alderaan for a hotbed of sexism, considering that they let an eighteen-year-old girl represent their entire sector. And just checking, but isn't the person running the New Republic a woman? So shouldn't any patriarchal attitudes be a little more subtle than this?
-Leia is going on a six-month tour of Hapes. Yes, now that some Hapans has tried to assassinate her, let's send her away from our trusted security forces into the assassins' home territory where they can get at her more easily! I'm starting to think the New Republic has been in on the assassination plot from the start, and maybe even approached Ta'a Chume about helping them. It makes as much sense as anything else.
-“It will give you and Isolder a little time to grow closer while the royal house of Hapes gets an opportunity to see how well that pretty little head of yours wears a crown!” I was kidding about the pretty little head thing. If I take it back, Dave, will you take it back too?
-“Don't you all think that Leia and Isolder make a beautiful couple?” So Threkin SlugHorm admits that it's all about the pretty. This is just making him and the entire marriage plan look unredeemably stupid.
-Most of the professional politicians there are amateurs in attendance? remained somewhat somber, but many of the traders traders of what? snickered while members of the media so they have live reporters as well as the droids and audience cheered and clapped. Now wait a minute. “Somber” means “dark and gloomy or dull; dismal; sad,” according to my dictionary. Why are the politicians gloomy? Do they think the marriage is a bad idea? Are they upset that Threkin Horm is happy that their beloved princess is going off with potential assassins? (I'm assuming they're the council members.) Then why don't they say something? If not here, then in private, either before or after this scene. And why doesn't Leia wonder what they're so gloomy about?
-You know, if we got more about those council members, and if they were sensible, then Threkin could keep on being ridiculous and it wouldn't feel as imbalanced. (When everyone is pro-Leia/Isolder and pro-rushing into things without thinking, I stop believing in the story and start looking at the man behind the curtain instead.) I'd still wonder why Threkin is so powerful, though, instead of one of them.
-“You can't plan my wedding without me!” Leia interrupted, rising from her seat, astonished at Threkin's audacity. LEIA, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? I'VE MISSED YOU SO MUCH! *hugs Real!Leia*
-“Isolder understands, as I'm sure that you must, that we aren't engaged – formally or informally. I'm going to Hapes simply to...” He gave you one month to decide, and you're going on a six-month trip. That implies a decision, doesn't it? And since you're not planning on leaving Hapes after three weeks, that implies a positive decision, doesn't it? This isn't rocket science, Leia.
-And then she realized the truth. Isolder was taking her to Hapes so that the planetary dignitaries she might someday rule could study her, measure her for the crown. And she was going so that she could have time to get closer to Isolder. It was just as Threkin said. No matter how she might try to deny it, everyone else in the galaxy could see what was happening. Again, it's no wonder Mon Mothma wants to get rid of her. What did she think it was, a vacation? Did she not think that accepting Isolder's offer to see the worlds she would rule meant that she was agreeing to rule them? And if she was prepared to discuss her plans “bluntly,” then why didn't she spend some time preparing and, I don't know, anticipating situations like this and figuring out her answers? Is she a politician or isn't she?
-And even if not for the public, why didn't she at least try to figure out her reasons for going on a six-month trip with a guy who proposed to her for her personal satisfaction? Did she just not think between sobbing in his arms and walking into the council chamber? I know Leia can be impulsive and can have trouble re-thinking biases and first impressions, but this brain death is something else entirely.
-She glanced over at Han. He looked miserable. I'll bet. She sat down, tried not to blush, intensely conscious that this encounter was already being carried live over dozens of news nets. She sounds more worried about being embarrassed than she is about the guy she hasn't had the guts to officially break up with before agreeing to go off with another guy. She knew she should argue against Threkin, if only to save face, but right now she just couldn't think. Only right now? It's been longer than that, Sweetheart.
-For the first time in her life, Leia was at a loss for words. That actually is sad. I would feel a lot more sorry for her, though, if she hadn't dug the hole herself by not bothering to think or prepare beforehand.
-Threepio bursts in and asks to address the council. I know he cuts in on conversations when he's on military bases or in the middle of an asteroid field, but shouldn't there be some protocol for this, like asking a council-member quietly first?
-Threkin is shocked at the idea of a droid speaking before the council. Leia “smiled inwardly” and thinks that this might be the first nail in the coffin for Horm's political career. Is she just mad at him right now, or is this a long-standing wish? I can definitely see why she'd want his career to end, but she hasn't found his behavior annoying or offensive for five chapters (and that's just weird), so it seems more like a momentary desire.
-Leia steps in and says Threepio should be allowed to speak, and the media droids cheer. (The people assent too.) So Leia is a champion for droid rights, but doesn't care about the oppressed men of Hapes?
-I do love the detail about the media droids, though. It fits nicely, and it reminds me of the “We don't serve their kind here” in ANH. Anti-droid prejudice is one of those little background attitudes that make the GFFA feel real and bigger than what's on the screen or page.
-Threepio says Leia should marry Han, and Threkin objects that Han isn't even royalty. Well, technically, neither is Leia. She was adopted, remember? So Threkin's just setting himself up for embarrassment by relying on blood as an indicator of worth. He would have done better to say that Han isn't educated enough or refined enough for Leia.
-But no one brings up the fact that Leia's parentage is completely unknown (except to her, Luke, Han, and Chewie). Because then Isolder might get scared off too early, and that would mess up the script. Besides, why would Leia be sensitive about parentage issues and object to the idea that only someone with a good pedigree is a good marriage partner? It's not like she has any issues with her father or anything.
-Threepio says that by birthright Han is the king of Corellia. I don't like this. It's like saying, “Of course your future spouse's character is the most important thing, and a royal pedigree totally doesn't matter... except that it does, and Han just happens to have one. So he's good enough, really!” I would rather see a completely non-royal Han pitted against a royal Isolder.
-Threepio says Han has tried to hide this fact. Leia wonders why Han never told her. If she's been treating him even half as badly as she has these past few days, I'm not surprised he didn't want to confide in her.
-Leia thinks Threepio is incapable of lying, but he can be ordered to lie, right? Like that time he told Luke he didn't know the pretty girl in the hologram?
-And speaking of Luke, now we inexplicably switch to his point of view. Both Leia and Han are having all sorts of interesting emotions right now, but we don't get to see them. Instead, we're stuck with a nearly emotionless Luke watching them on the news. Seriously, he is more surprised that they get the news way out here than he is that Han's ancestor was a king or that Leia is taking off with a guy she hardly knows. You'd think Luke would care a little more than that.
-Unless he's started falling apart lately, and has gone emotionally numb, and is in such bad shape that he thinks he's learning detachment rather than being completely messed up... but that would be complicated and interesting and not in the standard script, so no go.
-He thinks that Leia is living every woman's fantasy. Yeah, I always fantasize about being pushed into marriage with an arrogant jerk who doesn't care about my personality or my desires and whose family wants me dead. My god, Luke has been infected with patriarchy too! He thinks all girls are just waiting to be swept off their feet and taken care of by a big strong man!
-Luke smiled inwardly. Of course, he thought, Han is a king. I should have recognized it before. But why did he hide it? Sorry, WTF? Why would he think Han was a king? Because he has that noble Ranger bearing?
-In spite of his smile, Luke felt troubled. He could feel something odd, something distant and dark stirring. Too many in the galaxy would resist Leia's union to Isolder. You don't need the Force to figure that out. So why hasn't anyone in the New Republic? I wish the “something odd” Luke feels were something like the New Republic being involved in the assassination plot rather than the obvious Hapan plot (and the equally obvious upcoming we're-meeting-Zsinj-and-witches).
-Berethon e Solo introduced democracy to “the Corellian Empire.” Cool in so many ways. I want to hear more about this Corellian Empire, and about Berethon and why he decided to introduce democracy.
-Han's grandpa was Dalla Solo, who called himself Dalla Suul “to hide his identity during the Clone Wars.” Ooh, also intriguing. Has anyone written more about this guy? Whom was he hiding from?
-Dalla's firstborn son was Han's father, Jonash Suul. Han changed his name back to Solo and tampered with the records on Corellia to hide his lineage.
-No mention of the Solo women, you notice. Who was Han's mother? Some random mechanic, or a descendant of a Corellian duke, or what? Does anyone in the book know?
-I think Threepio loves fanficcers.
-Han slinks out the back. This isn't necessarily relevant to this instance, but it reminds me how astonishingly non-confrontational he has been so far. I don't know whether Wolverton did this intentionally to show how beaten down Han is by the war or whether he just didn't want Han to mess up the plot by saying inconveniently sharp things that the other characters couldn't ignore. Like, “Leia I got your message, and are you insane? The Hapans just tried to kill you, and you want to visit them before the NR has even investigated?”
-Dalla was known as Dalla the Black, and was a famous murderer, kidnapper, and pirate. This gives Han a really good opening to talk about social stratification and the difficulty of escaping the class you were born into later. Let's see if he does.
-Threkin Horm thinks royal heritage doesn't count (or is questionable) if one of your ancestors was also a pirate. I really wonder what he would say if Leia told him who her biological father was. Or what he would think about an intelligent, handsome, wealthy, principled man who had no royal ancestry and came from a family of shopkeepers. He has some interesting and I think realistically conflicting ideas about lineage, but I don't know enough about them to be sure.
-“Well, I am just an ignorant droid and confess that I don't understand how the actions of one's ancestors enhance or detract from one's respectability.” Listen to Threepio, people!
-“But since Dalla Suul's illegitimate daughter was your mother, I expect that you are infinitely more familiar with the logic of the arguments than I am.” HAHAHA! Threepio, you ROCK :D
-So Threkin and Han are cousins. I bet they're both horrified.
-I wonder how Threkin's grandmother wound up pregnant by Dalla the Black. Was it voluntary? Did he kidnap her? Did she like bad boys? Did Threkin's mother know her brother Jonash?
-I think even before the prequels, we knew the Clone Wars happened roughly twenty-five years before ANH, so did Wolverton just guess that the wars were longer than they were or is he saying the already-adult Jonash followed his father's lead in changing his name during the wars?
-Wait, this doesn't work. Threepio says Dalla was born “nearly sixty years ago,” so Jonash was probably not born more than forty years ago. Han is in his mid-thirties. Uh... so Jonash was a prepubescent father? Okay, let's say Dalla was born 59 and 3/4 years ago and had Jonash really really early, and Jonash was born forty-seven years ago, and Jonash was also a really really young father. (And then did he die young, or does Han have a whole passel of siblings out there somewhere? And how many illegitimate children did Dalla have?) That's just barely possible, I think.
-But that still doesn't leave enough time for Threkin to be “old.” He can't be much older than Han. Maybe he's just let himself go?
-And Threkin's mother also must have had him very young. The Horm family sounds seriously messed up. That explains a lot. Maybe he's fat not for comic purposes, but because he has an eating disorder. And he's been so pro-Leia/Isolder because he knows Han is his cousin and can't bear to let that bit of his family history get closer.
-Er, getting back to the actual book... Threkin turns pale and shakes. I'm not sure whether that's because he didn't know and is shocked, or because he did know and is freaked out that his secret is out. I hope he did know, actually. It makes sense that his insecurity about his lineage and screwed-up family led him to overcompensate and obsess about good lineages.
-Han's other known cousin is Thrackan Sal-Solo. Threkin. Thrackan. Hmm... Family name? Is Threkin/Thrackan the Taylor/Tyler of the GFFA? Props to Roger MacBride Allen, if that's what he had in mind.
-Luke turns off the announcer droid's commentary. I want to know what the droid thinks. Especially since all we get from Luke is a ho-hum “Han's family fell on hard times and turned to crime; no wonder he felt ashamed!” I can think of a lot more for Luke to chew on. Like why Han doesn't trust anyone enough to tell them about his past – not even Chewie. Or how Han will react later. Or what Leia will think about having it shoved in her face how important other officials think bloodlines are. Or that all this talk of bloodlines is a big reminder that Ta'a Chume is likely to want Leia to get started producing heirs pretty quickly, and what does Leia think about that? Heck, even worrying that now they might have to have Threkin over for dinner once in a while would be more interesting.
-The chapter ends with, “Poor Han.” Indeed. Wolverton is going out of his way to make us feel sorry for Han. I don't know whether he meant to make us irritated at everyone else.
Onward ho!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-16 06:38 pm (UTC)~Rel
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-16 09:37 pm (UTC)Wolverton is frustrating me even more now because he is getting better at including interesting detail and depth (as in the sabaac game), but he only does it occasionally. His writing is just so uneven. Maybe he got better in later novels? (Though with titles like "The Hunter for Han Solo," I'm not optimistic.)
Part 1
Date: 2006-08-20 02:22 am (UTC)I had a boyfriend break up with me on the phone once, and it was not nice. I forgave him because he was a kid, five years younger than myself, confused and frightened. I'd have expected a lot better from Leia.
You know, this book is making me root for Han to find someone better.
I'd yell "Han/Luke!", except that I don't think Wolverton's Luke deserves Han either. Only in my universe, then.
Having Leia be the insensitive, dickheaded guy in Han/Leia while Han is obsessing about love, marriage, and how to make Leia like him again makes Leia's internal comments about how controlling and inconsiderate to women Han is seem pretty weird.
Han is such a schoolgirl in this story, and Leia goes from damsel in distress to male chauvinist from one scene to the other. It's just a tiny bit confusing, methinks...
Threepio thinks Isolder is well-mannered too. Of course, now we know Threepio was programmed by a nine-year-old boy.
ROTFLOL! Come to think of it, that might explain a lot of things about Threepio.
These women were probably here last year saying Leia must only want Han for his looks. Because women are fickle like that, as we've learned so far in this book.
I wonder if Wolverton can spell "misoginy".
Threepio goes off to gossip with a computer so he can prove what a useful droid he is. He's so cute. *hugs Threepio*
*joins in* Group hug!
I'm really getting annoyed at how everyone in the book who is pro-Leia/Isolder is ridiculous and obviously operating without a brain. Wouldn't it make things harder for Leia if Threkin was someone she really respected?
I'm not against there being a Threkin Horm who is pro-Leia/Isolder for his own agenda. But I think we could have Mon Mothma to do the part you suggest. It would make it a lot harder, as Mothma is not only someone Leia respect, but a canon character the reader has learnt to respect as well. (Unfortunately, Wolverton failed to make her wise enough to deserve our respect too.)
Wouldn't HAPES SUSPECTED OF USING CONTROVERSIAL PROPOSAL AS COVER FOR ASSASSINATION be a great headline?
An extremely good point. I hadn't thought of it.
Not that we'll hear anything about it. Wolverton introduced this potentially interesting media idea just to tease us.
Speaking of which... Did the EU ever show how Luke and Leia revealed their kinship to the galaxy? In Timothy Zahn's trilogy it was already common knowledge that they are siblings.
It's a really, really bad sign when even the characters know they're acting like idiots.
I'm gonna defend Horm here and suggest that what he really meant was, "Often in the past your clear head and cautiousness have served you well, but in this particular case it is so blatantly obvious that marrying Isolder is the right thing to do that you don't need to overthink it."
He gave you one month to decide, and you're going on a six-month trip. That implies a decision, doesn't it?
It's worse if we think that she hasn't. Does she think she can spend six months with Isolder then say no to him and go back home to Han? (Or maybe Han's already history for her either way.)
What did she think it was, a vacation? Did she not think that accepting Isolder's offer to see the worlds she would rule meant that she was agreeing to rule them? And if she was prepared to discuss her plans "bluntly," then why didn't she spend some time preparing and, I don't know, anticipating situations like this and figuring out her answers? Is she a politician or isn't she?
Wolverton's Leia is a proverbial blonde. That's how we find out that she dyes her hair. (No, I don't believe blondes are stupid by nature, but Wolverton very well might.)
Re: Part 1
Date: 2006-08-30 02:23 am (UTC)I'd yell "Han/Luke!", except that I don't think Wolverton's Luke deserves Han either.
That's the trouble, isn't it? No one to root for. Except maybe Han/Isolder, because they are pinging my "I hate you and that means I love you madly" Hollywood-style relationship radar. They've got class differences, matching hard-headedness, common pirate experience... And in this kind of story, all the terrible hurt they have done and could possibly do each other would be magically erased by a passionate kiss, so it would work out for the duration of the book. But Hapes would never accept a Queen Father, so that's right out.
Han is such a schoolgirl in this story, and Leia goes from damsel in distress to male chauvinist from one scene to the other. It's just a tiny bit confusing, methinks...
I think maybe Wolverton was trying to show that gender roles are complex and so Leia can be both a damsel in distress and a dickhead, but there's no sense of how it all connects, so it just looks like she has a split personality to me. All the switching back and forth is enough to give a person whiplash.
Han as a schoolgirl, oh my. I don't think he could pull off the little skirt look with his bone structure :D Now, a kilt, maybe.
Did the EU ever show how Luke and Leia revealed their kinship to the galaxy?
You know, I don't know either! Seems like an important moment.
I'm gonna defend Horm here and suggest that what he really meant was, "Often in the past your clear head and cautiousness have served you well, but in this particular case it is so blatantly obvious that marrying Isolder is the right thing to do that you don't need to overthink it."
That makes more sense!
Wolverton's Leia is a proverbial blonde.
Definitely.
Though it would be funny if Han were (also?) the blond and decided he had to go to Harvard Law to get Leia back... Curse my sister for making me watch that irritatingly irresistible movie!
Re: Part 1
Date: 2006-08-31 12:24 am (UTC)It could work. Except that I see more Han-pines-for-Isolder than Isolder-pines-for-Han, so it's unbalanced and unfair to Han. *hugs Han protectively*
But Hapes would never accept a Queen Father, so that's right out.
A Queen Father! The perfect double entendre. LOL.
Though it would be funny if Han were (also?) the blond and decided he had to go to Harvard Law to get Leia back... Curse my sister for making me watch that
irritatingly irresistiblemovie!Gosh, whenever I see that movie is on, I remain in front of the TV and watch it again. I have no idea why. ^__^ Anyway, I reckon Wolverton's Han would be quite capable of a strategy like that.
Part 2
Date: 2006-08-20 02:27 am (UTC)I'll be kind to Leia here (not sure why) and assume she was worried about Han's humiliation in a live broadcast as well.
I do love the detail about the media droids, though. It fits nicely, and it reminds me of the “We don't serve their kind here” in ANH. Anti-droid prejudice is one of those little background attitudes that make the GFFA feel real and bigger than what's on the screen or page.
Word!
Threepio says Leia should marry Han, and Threkin objects that Han isn't even royalty. Well, technically, neither is Leia. She was adopted, remember?
It is common knowledge that she was adopted, isn't it? I seem to remember that Luke never explains to Isolder what his connection to Leia is, so I assume people didn't know they were twins by then?
I would rather see a completely non-royal Han pitted against a royal Isolder.
Agreed. Here the book reads awfully like a cheap romance for me, in which the princess falls for the poor man who later turns out to be of royal blood, so you can have a happy ending without a social class clash.
Leia thinks Threepio is incapable of lying, but he can be ordered to lie, right? Like that time he told Luke he didn't know the pretty girl in the hologram?
He lied? I thought the droids had had their memories wiped between trilogies, and that by the beginning of ANH they did have a different owner, and that coincidentally the guy and Leia were in the same ship when Vader's ship attacked.
And speaking of Luke, now we inexplicably switch to his point of view. Both Leia and Han are having all sorts of interesting emotions right now, but we don't get to see them.
I agree with you, Wolverton flees from emotional writing. And he's not the only EU writer who does that. (That's why to me fanfic will always be far superior. We, as a collective, are not afraid of any boundaries.)
Instead, we're stuck with a nearly emotionless Luke watching them on the news. Seriously, he is more surprised that they get the news way out here than he is that Han's ancestor was a king or that Leia is taking off with a guy she hardly knows. You'd think Luke would care a little more than that.
THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY!!! Those people are his family, forchrissake! His twin sister, his best friend! Even if he somehow incorporated to a ridiculous degree the "a Jedi feels no passion" mantra, he should at least have an opinion on the matter, an opinion the narrator could mention to us, even if Luke cautiously decides not to divulge it to Leia, to let her decide for herself.
He thinks that Leia is living every woman's fantasy. Yeah, I always fantasize about being pushed into marriage with an arrogant jerk who doesn't care about my personality or my desires and whose family wants me dead. My god, Luke has been infected with patriarchy too!
Time to defend Luke. He hadn't met Isolder, and he didn't know he was a prick. All he knew was that Isolder was a rich prince that showed up laying priceless treasures at Leia's feet, claiming to be in love with her and proposing marriage. And that is a common female fantasy. (It's arguable how much Luke knows about female fantasies, but I don't find it hard to believe that he'd assume so.)
Sorry, WTF? Why would he think Han was a king?
It's stupid. He might see nobleness in his friend, but it's definitely not that kind of nobleness. Royal blood doesn't automatically makes you a nice guy. And the end of the book, with its final revelation on the matter, makes it even worse for Luke.
Re: Part 2
Date: 2006-08-30 02:33 am (UTC)Even if he somehow incorporated to a ridiculous degree the "a Jedi feels no passion" mantra, he should at least have an opinion on the matter, an opinion the narrator could mention to us, even if Luke cautiously decides not to divulge it to Leia, to let her decide for herself.
Exactly! I could accept a Luke who maybe had a reaction, then supressed it because he felt like that was un-Jedi of him. Or a Luke who had a mild but definite reaction. Or just about anything else, really.
I'm not sure how much Luke knows, actually. Does he know Leia and Isolder never actually spoke before the proposal? I don't think Leia mentioned that to him. Still, if some guy my sister hardly knew proposed to her in front of five hundred thousand people in circumstances that would put a lot of pressure on her to accept, I wouldn't automatically assume he was a great guy, either. I'd consider him suspect until proven otherwise.
Re: Part 2
Date: 2006-08-31 12:33 am (UTC)Perhaps Threepio was aware his owner was part of the Rebellion, but not that Leia was, or that that little woman in the ship was Leia? I mean, I understand that her participation was a big secret until then, or else she'd have been arrested before.
George, George, George... The mess you left us to decipher....
I'm not sure how much Luke knows, actually. Does he know Leia and Isolder never actually spoke before the proposal? I don't think Leia mentioned that to him.
Then again Luke would know that Leia had never mentioned an Isolder to him before. I know I would be very concerned if my sister came to me telling me she's considering marriage with some guy I've never heard of before.
Part 3
Date: 2006-08-20 02:29 am (UTC)Whaaaaat? You wanted someone to say something sensible about it? Are you out of your mind?
I really wonder what [Horm] would say if Leia told him who her biological father was.
I ask the same about everyone in that government.
So Threkin and Han are cousins.
Funny, but highly improbable. And Wolverton probably had the same math teacher as J.K. Rowling.
I can think of a lot more for Luke to chew on. Like why Han doesn't trust anyone enough to tell them about his past – not even Chewie. Or how Han will react later. Or what Leia will think about having it shoved in her face how important other officials think bloodlines are.
Nah, Luke is a Jedi now, so he doesn't do personal relationships now. With him, it's all about the Force now, the big events, the the distant somethings that stir in the dark. Friends and family are too ordinary for him now. *gags*
Re: Part 3
Date: 2006-08-30 02:10 am (UTC)You read my mind :D
*gags*
Yeah. It's an awfully imbalanced attitude, I think. Seriously, how hard is it to understand that you can care about someone without becoming a psycho or sacrificing the entire galaxy for one person? That's more for the PT Jedi, but Luke seems to be channeling them half the time here.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-31 12:14 am (UTC)True. I wonder if the EU writers were in the know about what was about to come with the PT and the Jedi celibacy thing somehow. The old Marvel comics, as far as I know (I don't have that many issues), maintained a fairly human and emotive Luke to almost the end. (I have the last issue, and that Luke was even weirder to me than Wolverton's.) I don't understand why anyone would simply assume that Luke would turn into a soulless monk after RotJ.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-02 04:18 am (UTC)Or maybe you're right and they did get a few clues about the PT beforehand - maybe the publishers called up George to bounce some story ideas off him, asked him what the old Jedi were like so they could show Luke learning more about them and becoming more like them, and got something like, "For the Jedi... think monks."